home purpose join itg ITG Publication job bank itg listserv hf/Web conferences library

OPINIONS Is it okay to spawn a separate Web browser window? ... CHI-Web Discussion compiled by Anthony J. Masalonis The following opinions are condensed and edited from a discussion that took place in August 1998 on CHI-Web listserv. The discussion really got started with a comment from Steve Fouts, and took off from there with a number of discussants providing cogent arguments for and/or against this web design issue. Observe.... Original post by Steve Fouts My gut feeling is that spawning a new browser window is something best avoided because it violates the "user in control" idea, but I haven't tested the effect it has on people's experience with a site. Does anyone have comments, pro or con? Steve Fouts stefou@eskimo.com, stefou@safeco.com, August 25, 1998 11:15 AM Responses I do notice one thing that can be very frustrating to a novice user and may make people rethink the design: that is, on a Windows machine (which most people have, 'specially new computer owners who are all hot and bothered about "sub $1000 pc's"), when you spawn a new window it lays *exactly* on top of the old one - and if you are not savvy, you may not realize there are now two windows open (on the Mac, the new window is intentionally off-set). If you don't realize there are 2 windows open, and you try the "back" button, it loads your homepage because there is no other page in recent history to 'go back' to. also, the spawned window is now a named window (either "new" or some other name you gave it) and that sometimes can behave strangely if you have several windows open and a totally different one also calls out a new window. That said, I *do* think it's an effective way to offer external site links, but I can't think of an instance where I would do so *within* a site. derek h. bambach dbambach@s1.com August 25, 1998 3:33 PM derek bambach wrote: "that said, I *do* think it's an effective way to offer external site links, but I can't think of an instance where I would do so *within* a site." But, to take a somewhat extreme position: Why does everybody think he knows better than me at which point of surfing around I want to open a new window? I don't want no page author guessing at my intentions. I'm fully capable of opening new windows if I feel the need to do so. (Please, don't be offended by my tone, I know it's rude, but so is opening new windows IMHO.) Jo Meder jo@DELORGES.IN-BERLIN.DE, August 26, 1998 5:32 AM I've never personally seen a problem with anything other than JavaScript windows in usability testing. Anecdotally, I know that users say they lose browser instances spawned off hyperlinks, particularly when surfing for a long time. As more of a power-user, I myself prefer them; I do not believe novices feel the same way. As a designer, I try to follow that general rule I read from a Sun article that a separate window could be spawned only if it provides functionality over and above navigation, but this article was referring to applet windows. I'll start off some pros and cons on those small child windows... Some Pros: definitely saves real estate to deploy to the masses allows the window to be used as a browser separate from the parent, retaining context of the parent allows for dialogs to be spawned that are peripheral to or support the web application cool appeal may act as an intermediate window to spawn a separate Java application Some Cons: biggest problem is that many users will lose this window -- a problem over and above typical windows management since this browser behavior is relatively new "Back" may not work as expected in the mind of the user with most browsers, no control over the default position or dynamic sizing according to total available real estate no setting to create window that is a modal dialog; many browsers do not support window focusing methods some browsers disallow control of closing window instances without a confirmation dialog, preventing window cleanup one some platforms this represents a memory leak window to window communication can be weak and create dependencies that cause JScript errors I've yet to design a separate window spawning for anything other than an "About Box" or (begrudgingly) the help system. Roger Chang Roger@ROGERCHANG.COM, August 25, 1998 5:40 PM derek bambach wrote: "I find that it is an effective way to offer links to external sites, so that a user can go check something out without losing their place in the original site." True. But what I question is whether the webmaster or the user should decide when this is needed. (...) I strongly dislike it when a site spawns a new window. If I want to spawn a new window, I will do it myself. I hold down the mouse button (in Windows, it's right-click) until the popup menu appears, and then select "Open a new window with this link." (I do this a lot with framed sites, for example, only of course the option is "Open a new window with this frame.") The capability to spawn is always there, and this way *I* (the user) decide when to use it. Elizabeth Buie ebuie@csc.com, August 26, 1998 5:48 AM Elizabeth Buie wrote: "I strongly dislike it when a site spawns a new window. If I want to spawn a new window, I will do it myself... The capability to spawn is always there, and this way *I* (the user) decide when to use it." Not all websites are simply reams and reams of "pure" information (or marketing stuff) which a user is free to surf thru in any order at any time with no necessary goal. Some websites (especially e'commerce, etc) require a fairly scripted sequence of events or actions a user has to perform in a particular way. It is incumbent on the designer to make the tasks as bullet-proof as possible, and also to make recovering from errors as graceful and un-interrupting as possible. To that end, it is sometimes a better idea to open a second window for them instead of making them jump to something that might not be so obviously related, and then lose their original context. Web sites that *require* user-interaction (e'commerce, on-line banking, investing, filling out any kind of complex forms) can benefit from a well thought-out implementation of spawning windows. Likewise, a website can also be hobbled by the refusal to employ certain design strategies just because you dont want to 'offend' a user. Making people click thru some kind of confirmation dialog box (either on a web site or in a piece of software) can be cumbersome and downright frustrating (particularly to 'power' users) but that doesn't mean you leave out confirmation dialog behavior. derek h. bambach dbambach@s1.com, derek bambach wrote: "if I'm in the middle of filling out a complex form for an on-line stock trade, and I need to see something in the help, I don't want to lose my context - I want to see the help side-by-side with the form I'm filling out so I can understand what I'm doing. then I just close the help window and move on." This is an excellent point, and something I hadn't considered. "it is also very useful when your user is in a secure server space ... " Another good point. So I will revise my comments: Let the user know when a link is going to spawn a new window. In some cases, this would probably need to be done on a link by link basis (...). In other cases (such as help), it could probably involve a eneral notice (maybe on each page, depending on the site). Elizabeth Buie ebuie@csc.com, August 26, 1998 8:36 AM Here is a compilation of the usages for spawned windows I can think of: ads that "jump at you" or float somewhere on the screen fixed-size windows for layout purposes permanent visible navigation tools "open link in new window" for external resources or online help login screens, dialog boxes pop-up info for selected items (balloon help, dictionary items) launching (Java-)applications My opinion: is annoying Might be o.k. for experimental sites to keep the implementation effort down as an *additional* tool ok, as sole navigation tool not let the user decide if he wants to open a the link in the same window or not problem with non-modal windows that become accidentally occluded by other window; why not use a simple web-page instead? good if context remains visible, but also modality problem good! (see below) The purpose of 3 and 6 could also be achieved by frames and/or java-applets (as discussed in http://www.useit.com/alertbox/9710b.html). So why use spawned windows? Why make interaction more complex and sorting out the visual clutter more difficult? Harald Friz harald@FRIZ.COM, August 26, 1998 3:50 PM Elizabeth Buie wrote: "So I will revise my comments: Let the user know when a link is going to spawn a new window." We are considering doing this for the same reason that CNN does it. To clearly indicate that the link is content that is not created (or endorsed) by us. I suppose the sad fact is that this is something that may or may not be a point that the user appreciates, but it may be something more directed to the lawyers. Beth Mazur mazur@pobox.com, August 26, 1998 4:49 PM Tell us what you think This debate, while on the surface seeming to belabor a relatively minor point, goes beyond the realms of esoteric design questions. As the comments made above illustrate, the decision whether to spawn a new window is tied to more general issues of designing for different OS's (operating systems), monitor sizes, etc., as well as issues of making sure the user does not "mess up" the intended sequence of events. As the last comment reminds us, legal concerns may even guide decisions like this one. Most importantly, the heart of the debate is arguably the heart of Human Factors and Ergonomics: Who knows what is best for the user? The HTML designer? The HF/E practitioner or researcher? The user him/herself? [and "The User" refers not only to the person browsing the site, but also, especially in the case of e-commerce and other situations where information must be entered a certain way in a certain sequence, the person that receives the order and must process it - or more likely, the person who must deal with the consequences if the script is unable to process it.] The question of how to meet the sometimes-conflicting needs of the users, the designers, the marketers and the lawyers, rears its challenging head every day. Your comments are encouraged on the automatic spawning of new windows, the underlying concerns it raises, or any other issue in Internet usage that is potentially controversial (or just plain interesting.) Submit opinion pieces, anything from a few sentences up to 750 words, to Tony Masalonis at either of the following addresses: masalonis@cua.edu or anthony.j.masalonis@bellatlantic.com © Internet Technical Group Last update: December 5, 1998 URL: http://www.sandia.gov/itg/newsletter/dec98/???.html hosted by Sandia National Labs Disclaimer: Neither Sandia Corporation, the United States Government, nor any agency thereof, nor any of their employees makes any warranty, express or implied, or assumes any legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of any information, apparatus, product, or process disclosed, or represents that its use would not infringe privately-owned rights. Reference herein to any specific commercial product, process, or service by trade name, trademark, manufacturer, or otherwise does not necessarily constitute or imply its endorsement, recommendation, or favoring by Sandia Corporation, the United States Government, or any agency thereof. The views and opinions expressed herein do not necessarily state or reflect those of Sandia Corporation, the United States Government or any agency thereof.